Ethics in gamemaking

1MrPaul1

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When making games we need to try to catch as wider auditory as it possible.
And well know fact that the best way to get attention of all people is to make something dirty and not ethic.
This is why authors of GTA is on top of most rich people in England. This is not a secret that the key of success of this game is a sexual scenes, extreme unjustified violence, and other dirty things.

So, how do you think, do we need to add not ethic content in our games for getting more profits?
Or we need to teach people to love good thing instead of feed their lustful desires?

Rares

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GTA V looks plain fun to me. There are games far worse than it published, with far more violence and or sexual themes.
The mage does a good job simulating a world where you can do almost anything. This is why videogames are made. To give you experiences that you won't have most likely in real life.

By the way, what is "real" anyway?
Last version (0.1.5) of my now cancelled game:
http://www.stencyl.com/game/play/27241

colburt187

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First of all, Rockstar the creator of GTA is from Scotland!, so either British or Scottish would work, but not English, however it is a global company now.

The reason I loved GTA is for the freedom, style, music and the comedy. Not everyone wants to be the wholesome hero saving the villagers etc. Many people like crime books and movies, things like goodfellas, casino, the godfather etc. GTA gave you the chance to enter the seedy underworld of crime and live the lifestyle.

also the very first GTA did not have sexual scenes and was so small that the violence was no stronger than a war game or space shooter, and this the game that launched the empire. So the initial success was not based purely on sex and extreme violence.

Like Rares said, there are much more violent games out there, GTA had story, personalty etc that made it great.
Games are a form of escapism, I don't want the game maker to make ethical choices for me.

There are plenty of non violent successful games, MineCraft, sims, Fifa, racing games, puzzle games etc

Blob

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When making a game the worst thing you can do is focus on trying to capture the largest audience possible because in doing so you're inherently disregarding what's important to you and replacing unique ideas that turn away certain people with watered down work that appeals to the lowest common denominator.

Sex and violence aren't the most significant ethical problem games today face. A much greater threat to society is games designed to siphon as much time and money from players as possible by any means necessary. Thematic representations and satire don't compare to thoughtless game design and greed.

Grand Theft Auto owes its success to a lot more than crude humor and run-of-the-mill game violence. I imagine its two-hundred-million dollar budget and open world had something to do with it.

If your game doesn't sell well it's mostly your fault.

1MrPaul1

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I do not said that adding sex and violence is the one way to get attention but this is the easiest way.  And I do not tell that this type of content gives a success to any game, just attention.

And I do not talk about myself and my games. I can't sell my games from my country anyway but this is the theme for other long speak...

I just see how my nephews and his school friends playing in GTA, and yes, they like that this is an open world where you can do everything you want but they as many other people use this freedom for making mayhem everywhere in this open world.
And I do not think that developers do not know about it. It looks like developers trying to make more ways to make chaos.
I just grow up in USSR where we do not have any violence in the movies, cartoons etc. It was a censor and censor it is not right but I think this is right that young people do not see any dirt in games, cartoons and movies. Because there, in USSR we had more clean and peaceful society that we have now after US gives us "great democracy".

I'm against any censor, but i think every author got to think before adding any not ethic content that he/she have a responsibility to consumers and he/she can just harm somebodies mind. Don't you think so?

irock

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I just see how my nephews and his school friends playing in GTA, and yes, they like that this is an open world where you can do everything you want but they as many other people use this freedom for making mayhem everywhere in this open world.
Minecraft is also an incredibly successful open-world game, and yet most people spend their time in the game creating things. That's because the game mechanics are designed for that, while the game mechanics in GTA (shooting, carjacking, wanted levels and police chases) are based around committing crimes. Perhaps if Grand Theft Auto were just as heavily based around stopping criminals, players would do that instead.

If your assertion were true (that sex and unjustified violence correlates with more profit) then you'd expect to see this trend when looking at a list of best selling video games. That isn't the case. Either game developers are completely oblivious to this alleged correlation or the correlation doesn't exist in any significant manner.

When you ask a person with a decent understanding of video games why they play GTA, their answer probably isn't going to be "because there are hookers and you can murder people." Your claim that GTA is successful because of the surface-level subject matter is an insult everyone who worked on those games. Grand Theft Auto is popular because Rockstar makes good video games.

Mineat

  • Posts: 299
When making games we need to try to catch as wider auditory as it possible.
And well know fact that the best way to get attention of all people is to make something dirty and not ethic.
This is why authors of GTA is on top of most rich people in England. This is not a secret that the key of success of this game is a sexual scenes, extreme unjustified violence, and other dirty things.

So, how do you think, do we need to add not ethic content in our games for getting more profits?
Or we need to teach people to love good thing instead of feed their lustful desires?


As long as people's desires are not being fulfilled, they will try their best to immerse in such gaming content in order to escape reality at its finest. This is a common fact for MMOs and is best left alone, not to be killed by both the creator and the consumer which would start such a conflict between each other over which is original, thus making love a battlefield.

Blob

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what is happening

1MrPaul1

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Games that contains sex on NG are very popular even if the game itself is completely stupid and not original and even not on the main page of NG and not advertised and have very low rating but anyway those game have tens of millions of downloads.
I even will not talk about whole internet where content with 18+ themes have bigger part of traffic than all other themes together.

If sex is not important for GTA why almost on every cover of this game we can see naked sexy girl?
Isn't it the prof that Rockstar using sex for selling GTA? And as you said they are true professionals and knows good what they do.

Nobody will tell you that they like the game because they can kill there, they tell just that the game is fun.
This is the problem, many teens now thinking that killing and robbing this is fun. that bad guys have many sexy girls, expensive cars and interesting life. Video games, MTV and movies tells about it everyday.

But this is not fun, I saw everything in real life, mafia, death, blood,  I'm fought with ax with robbers where my body was in blood from top to bottom, was in fire, in fact I had GTA in real life and this is not fun at all, even don't want to remember this.
This is why when I see this type of games I am disgusted.

I do not want to dispute here I just want to ask every developer here to think about this theme.

what is happening
what is happening? :)

irock

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You're ignoring many of my points, and I don't appreciate that. Either address them or concede.

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Games that contains sex on NG are very popular even if the game itself is completely stupid and not original and even not on the main page of NG and not advertised and have very low rating but anyway those game have tens of millions of downloads.
I even will not talk about whole internet where content with 18+ themes have bigger part of traffic than all other themes together.
If your point is that humans are interested in sex, then no shit. Sex is vital to the survival of the species, so we naturally evolved to seek it out. Sex does not equal one of the best selling and critically acclaimed video game franchises of all time, however. There are plenty of games with sexualization, but only one Grand Theft Auto.

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If sex is not important for GTA why almost on every cover of this game we can see naked sexy girl?
Isn't it the prof that Rockstar using sex for selling GTA? And as you said they are true professionals and knows good what they do.
There are no naked girls on any GTA box art that I'm aware of. There are promiscuous girls presumably for the same reason there are vehicles, guns and, on GTA V's box art, a dog. It's thematically relevant to the game and lets the consumer know what they're in for if they buy the game. I don't find the girls on the box art arousing in the slightest.

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Nobody will tell you that they like the game because they can kill there, they tell just that the game is fun.
Right, your average consumer can't articulate why they enjoy something, and I assume you're in the same category since you seem to think the fun/appealing parts of Grand Theft Auto are the surface-level thematic elements rather than the world and raw gameplay.

Grand Theft Auto has satisfying low-level gameplay.
Grand Theft Auto has an interesting world to explore.
Grand Theft Auto's thematic elements are well executed.

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This is the problem, many teens now thinking that killing and robbing this is fun. that bad guys have many sexy girls, expensive cars and interesting life. Video games, MTV and movies tells about it everyday.
Yeah, like how Michael's family leaves him in GTA V. Or how Niko and Roman's apartment is burned down in GTA IV. Or how Niko's girlfriend is murdered at a wedding in GTA IV.

You've never played through a Grand Theft Auto game, have you?

When someone like Jack Thompson, a guy who basically makes a living bitching about Grand Theft Auto's existence, gets on national television and says there have been DOZENS of cases of people who committed crimes because of GTA (which is a bullshit claim in the first place since there's no way to know what did or didn't influence someone), then it's obvious that it's not actually much of a problem considering MILLIONS of people have played Grand Theft Auto.

I've been playing Grand Theft Auto since 2003, and yet my tolerance for violence has grown thinner since that time. How is that possible?

irock

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This is completely unrelated to "ethics in gamemaking" since fictitious unethical behavior isn't unethical in reality. This is, however, related to the overuse of violence in video games.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/5ZM2jXyvGOc?hl=en_US&amp;amp;version=3" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/5ZM2jXyvGOc?hl=en_US&amp;amp;version=3</a>

Blob

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As Irock showed, it's worth having discussions about the overuse of thoughtless violence (and sex) in videogames, they're real issues. However, it's insulting and incredibly un-developer-like to discredit an entire game with a shallow glimpse of the game's high-level themes. If I'd hope any community is capable of segregating a game's inner workings from its thin thematic overlay it would be a community of people who make games, instead we get Fox News grandparents style analysis (Not singling out 1MrPaul1 here).

Grand Theft Auto has some of the longest credits sequences I've ever seen relative to their release dates, this means an enormous number of people had to spend a great deal of time making a cohesive work of huge scope. The average job title for GTA is probably 'programmer' or 'artist', not 'person who comes up with raunchy things'. I would guess that less than 1% of that game's efforts went towards its illicit themes. There are things I find distasteful in the games as well, but neither I nor your nephew are predominately enjoying the game for its one-liners and blood, and it would be silly to denounce a game like GTA on those things alone.

Rares

  • Posts: 216
You should probably reconsider bashing GTA for sexual themes and violence, and START PRAISING them for listening to the community. R* are one of the only people around that meet the fans expectations. To compare, take EA.  They rush out games, for PC at least, there are crappy console ports, most locked at 30 fps (NFS series most notable. Also they do a piss poor job at masking that they spent little time paying attention to the port (weird controls A to accelerate? What is this? (NFS MW 2012, Burnout paradise etc. ). Do they listen to the fanbase of NFS that they want NFS Underground 3? No. What they do is copy most assets from previous games (Burnout Paradise) and add new things to it and create a new game (NFS MW 2012). They rush out games such as Battlefield, they start making a new game before fixing the previous titles. And yes EA aren't the developers, but they do play the major part in what games are created, when are they to be released etc, because they fund the studios. Overall Rockstar's income grows because they do things right, they take their time, listen to the community (for the most part). Take NFS's sales ( NFS U 1 - 22 M , NFS U 2 - 22 M, NFS Carbon - 9 M, NFS Undercover 6.5M, NFS The Run - 3 M). This year they haven't announced a new NFS, seems like they are at the point where they either rethink their approach or drop it altogether.
Last version (0.1.5) of my now cancelled game:
http://www.stencyl.com/game/play/27241

1MrPaul1

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I just played in first parts, many years ago without very big interest. 
As a developer i can see there very hard work, open world, stylish graphics, good models, missions etc, but also I see those tricks that they using for making their games popular.

And I do not want to say that GTV makes bandits from children. I'm talking about all media, cinema, other games, music channels.  All those stupidity and platitude. I just think that we ve got to try to make our games without it, even if we knows that it will give us more popularity.

If I will say to some teen that for success he will need to working hard, learn, to be a responsible person he will say that I'm boring that I'm talking like his grandpa but if I will say to him that he need to be a bandit, f//k everyone who moving, kill his enemies and leads free life without any obligations, live just for his pleasure, he will say that I'm right, I'm cool etc but this is not right. 

Yes, to be a good guy this is boring, hard, but this is right, yes, life of the bandit is easy, interesting but short and without any meaning.
media must to describe it. but more profitable to romanticize bandit live. this is sad.

Makes this kind of product it's like to make GMO, narcotics, it is destroys people from inside. IMHO.




 

irock

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If I will say to some teen that for success he will need to working hard, learn, to be a responsible person he will say that I'm boring that I'm talking like his grandpa but if I will say to him that he need to be a bandit, f//k everyone who moving, kill his enemies and leads free life without any obligations, live just for his pleasure, he will say that I'm right, I'm cool etc but this is not right. 
Either you're talking to really weird teenagers or you live in a really bad place.

The world is steadily becoming less violent.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/22/world-less-violent-stats_n_1026723.html