Is online multiplayer like Worms possible with stencyl?

merrak

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  • Posts: 2496
I really dislike when I go into a programming chat channel like Ludum Dare, and they ask me what I use to program and when I say Stencyl everyone starts laughing and says that's fake coding. Stencyl is easier than other ways to code, yes. But I have been using it for three years and I still suck. I wish people would have more respect for it.

Real programmers use a magnetized needle and a steady hand.

These kinds of conversations get tiring, and they're everywhere. Go to a site like Deviantart and I'm sure there's someone arguing about whether or not digital art is "art". I'd say both parties would be better off if they devoted that energy into using their tools to create something, rather than bickering about whether or not they're "real".

Nikkita31

  • Posts: 130
Yo.

Regardless of the the tools that you use, the content and it's effect to the viewer is the bottom line of things. If the message and effect of the game has been delivered, then I call it a success. In my opinion, Games are created either to send important messages, educate or to depict something that reflects the author's personal experience.

Stencyl is one hell of a tool that can really help us do this. It is an awesome tool and can deliver very fast results.


Donni11

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  • Posts: 2182

 I just have no option but to look for Unity.

You know there are other 3D game engines/programming .

http://www.alice.org/index.php
Peace

Bhoopalan

  • Posts: 1016

 I just have no option but to look for Unity.

You know there are other 3D game engines/programming .

http://www.alice.org/index.php
Thanks for the info, Donni. I know there are other engines out there other than Unity but I haven't heard of alice before. I'll check that.

Basically, no other software I've come across is as good as unity for 3d games. I've tried softwares like cocos, shiva (I think).
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Frostfire

  • Posts: 23
I really dislike when I go into a programming chat channel like Ludum Dare, and they ask me what I use to program and when I say Stencyl everyone starts laughing and says that's fake coding. Stencyl is easier than other ways to code, yes. But I have been using it for three years and I still suck. I wish people would have more respect for it.

*Clears throat, get up on soap box*
In all honesty, I feel the same way.  I used to teach Stencyl for college level game design at a university.  I taught for intro to game engines, which didn't involve programming.  I taught the actor->behavior model. The idea was to then pass them up to Unity for 3D.    I love Stencyl, and fell in love with it for how quickly I can program in it.  I advocated time and time again that we should teach programming with Stencyl because it's so easy to use.   But because Unity is Unity (some kind of praised indie god savior) and Stencyl is Stencyl (simply a 2D creation tool), we actually stopped using it. It's been bumped off for Unity.  Simply because Unity is unity.  And because Unity doesn't agree with me, I don't teach anything involving a game engine there anymore.     The higher ups didn't even really give it a true chance or looked at the output. 

We teach Unity therefore we should start with Unity. 
Stencyl can't teach anybody anything because Unity is greater than Stencyl.
Unity is greater than Stencyl because it's in 3D and anything that can't 3D is loser. 
Unity is greatest thing ever, that's why we teach Unity.

However, at the other school I teach at, I had to teach intro to programming.  I used Stencyl, and found they had vast successes.  Where in the programming course at the other school they'd barely have a game with about launching a ball at things to knock them down (health is beyond measure), my students are making almost full 2D games on their own, creating their own health systems, and doing other things I was frankly surprised they could do.  They need help now and again, but towards the end, when I'd be teaching them how to do something, they'd already have it done mid lecture.    And furthermore none of them look up and copy code either as is the case with Unity, praying it all works.  They understand programming.   Only 1/8 of them had previous programming experience.  And only 1/8 said programming wasn't for him (not the same guy, mind you)

Talking with students at the other school, they are confused.   I don't know their dropout rates, but I do know if you're not a programmer, prepare to leave confused.

There's some stigma that Stencyl is not worthwhile because it not only is it drag and drop code, but it's in 2D only.  Meanwhile, Unity gets forgiven for everything.    Stencyl's UI drawing system has always been a breeze for me.  Getting something basic to print to the screen takes less than a minute.  A year ago Unity's UI was a hunk of indecipherable garbage, and after a refit it still takes 20 steps to get position to display on the screen for debug purposes.   And no one wants to call them out on it.    Stencyl had Stencylforge before the asset store, but people I know still call SF "Stencyl's asset store."

And now that Unity has a 2D game creation utility, Stencyl is laughed out of the room even harder.   

However, even if it's drag and drop programming, I can program any routine faster with Stencyl than they can type it out (with the exception of a Quicksort I tried to do in stencyl once.  That took way more lines than I thought it would).

I can still drop assets into stencyl faster than they can set theirs up.  And I can still make a game from scratch in Stencyl in 5-10 minutes, while they're still watching the tutorial video on how to make whatever their idea is to work.

I just don't get it.  There are a ton of utilities out there, and even the big players have dumbed down their engines and upped their tutorials.  But Unity's always the first thing everybody goes for. 
-Unreal automatically does networking, but lets use Unity (which starts at the transport layer I believe, or did once not too far in the past)
-Cry looks gorgeous but lets go with Unity.   
-Stencyl was made for 2D games, but lets use Unity.
-Rennpy is free and was made just for story games, is basically complete and all you have to do is write the story and put in the pictures!.........but lets use Unity and write it from scratch.

All I see is unity playing catchup and the biggest thing they have going for them is Hearthstone, Rust, and Kerbal. 

My rant might be dated by a year, and it's 12:15 at night.  But I'm tired of Stencyl being looked down upon.  It's a solid engine.

*Gets off soapbox*

Bhoopalan

  • Posts: 1016
Well said, Frostfire.

Especially somethings here that I can correlate well with myself

"And furthermore none of them look up and copy code either as is the case with Unity, praying it all works.  They understand programming.  "

"takes 20 steps to get position to display on the screen for debug purposes.  " Precisely. Had great difficulty just for debugging purpose in Unity.

That all said, I still love Unity may be because there are toooooo many video tutorials for that and also tooooo many plugins, extensions and assets to use. May be because I never tried out any other 3d Game engines. If you have an idea for a 3d game, you have no other option but to stay a little away from Stencyl.

There are something that 2D game developers can't do. For everything else, there is Stencyl ;)
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yoplalala

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  • Posts: 1528

 I just have no option but to look for Unity.

You know there are other 3D game engines/programming .

http://www.alice.org/index.php
Thanks for the info, Donni. I know there are other engines out there other than Unity but I haven't heard of alice before. I'll check that.

Basically, no other software I've come across is as good as unity for 3d games. I've tried softwares like cocos, shiva (I think).

you can try godot, it seems to have good reviews ( it's an engine made by a game company and which was released last year as open source)  http://www.godotengine.org

Bhoopalan

  • Posts: 1016

 I just have no option but to look for Unity.

You know there are other 3D game engines/programming .

http://www.alice.org/index.php
Thanks for the info, Donni. I know there are other engines out there other than Unity but I haven't heard of alice before. I'll check that.

Basically, no other software I've come across is as good as unity for 3d games. I've tried softwares like cocos, shiva (I think).

you can try godot, it seems to have good reviews ( it's an engine made by a game company and which was released last year as open source)  http://www.godotengine.org
Thanks. I've bookmarked that :) I'm still not knowledgeable to go coding from scratch. So it will take time for me to test these engines.
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Frostfire

  • Posts: 23
Well said, Frostfire.

Especially somethings here that I can correlate well with myself

"And furthermore none of them look up and copy code either as is the case with Unity, praying it all works.  They understand programming.  "

"takes 20 steps to get position to display on the screen for debug purposes.  " Precisely. Had great difficulty just for debugging purpose in Unity.

That all said, I still love Unity may be because there are toooooo many video tutorials for that and also tooooo many plugins, extensions and assets to use. May be because I never tried out any other 3d Game engines. If you have an idea for a 3d game, you have no other option but to stay a little away from Stencyl.

There are something that 2D game developers can't do. For everything else, there is Stencyl ;)

Unity and I don't get along.  Things about it irk me, and any time I try to do something as an experienced programmer it puts up roadblocks for me.  I see other people have luck with it, and I wish them the best.  I try not to downtalk Unity as an engine.

However, I will speak volumes about how the masses of game developers talk about Unity.  Unity is widely used and has tutorial videos and extensions because of it's community for the most part, not it's core development team.  That might be a bit over the top to say, but consider that their scripting references are a mess, their own tutorials are very narrow in focus, and something breaks almost every version upgrade.  I've been using the same adapted kits from Stencyl since version 1, and I've only had one thing that acted "weird". Nothing that has been broken. 

I also didn't have to learn Stencyl from 50 tutorial videos.  I did the crash course. I did an ancient programming exercise which taught me to make a pronger patrol between two blocks.  Everything else is so simple I learned it on my own (though I'll admit I didn't hear about the image API till yesterday).

And maybe it's because I'm a teacher, but I see wide eyed students dreaming of working in triple A companies, when the only thing close to a triple A company actually producing on Unity is Facepunch (I say that because I think they only have 20 people).   

I'm not saying don't like Unity.  I'm just posting a continuance on the conversation.  It just does irk me that despite a lot of solid engines out there, it gets so much limelight, when I see it basically just playing catchup to others.

Also I find their community to be pompus and unhelpful when it comes to coding.  Which is another reason I love Stencyl.  Because people here are awesome.

Well said, Frostfire.

Especially somethings here that I can correlate well with myself

"And furthermore none of them look up and copy code either as is the case with Unity, praying it all works.  They understand programming.  "

"takes 20 steps to get position to display on the screen for debug purposes.  " Precisely. Had great difficulty just for debugging purpose in Unity.

That all said, I still love Unity may be because there are toooooo many video tutorials for that and also tooooo many plugins, extensions and assets to use. May be because I never tried out any other 3d Game engines. If you have an idea for a 3d game, you have no other option but to stay a little away from Stencyl.

There are something that 2D game developers can't do. For everything else, there is Stencyl ;)

Unity and I don't get along.  Things about it irk me, and any time I try to do something as an experienced programmer it puts up roadblocks for me.  I see other people have luck with it, and I wish them the best.  I try not to downtalk Unity as an engine.

However, I will speak volumes about how the masses of game developers talk about Unity.  Unity is widely used and has tutorial videos and extensions because of it's community for the most part, not it's core development team.  That might be a bit over the top to say, but consider that their scripting references are a mess, their own tutorials are very narrow in focus, and something breaks almost every version upgrade.  I've been using the same adapted kits from Stencyl since version 1, and I've only had one thing that acted "weird". Nothing that has been broken. 

I also didn't have to learn Stencyl from 50 tutorial videos.  I did the crash course. I did an ancient programming exercise which taught me to make a pronger patrol between two blocks.  Everything else is so simple I learned it on my own (though I'll admit I didn't hear about the image API till yesterday).

And maybe it's because I'm a teacher, but I see wide eyed students dreaming of working in triple A companies, when the only thing close to a triple A company actually producing on Unity is Facepunch (I say that because I think they only have 20 people).   

I'm not saying don't like Unity.  I'm just posting a continuance on the conversation.  It just does irk me that despite a lot of solid engines out there, it gets so much limelight, when I see it basically just playing catchup to others.

Also I find their community to be pompus and unhelpful when it comes to coding.  Which is another reason I love Stencyl.  Because people here are awesome.

I really wish others would read this that think Stencyl is crap now, and they'd understand. I totally agree with the community also, Stencyl's community is the best community ive ever been in. I have tried Unity before, and been on their forums. Stencyls is far better due to if you ask a question you can almost be guaranteed a response in almost 20-35 minutes.

Bhoopalan

  • Posts: 1016
Both of the above comments are so true about the community. People help without expecting anything in return here. 

Unity's popularity is mainly because of the world renowned games I think. Subway Surfer added a very beautiful feather to Unity. Not sure how many other popular games were made with Unity. (Not sure if Temple run is also Unity made). 

A topic about Online multiplayer game turned completely into a different discussion. May be this should be moved to chit-chat ;)
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Bhoopalan

  • Posts: 1016
I really wish others would read this that think Stencyl is crap now, and they'd understand.

I've seen such posts as well. I wouldn't really care about those who think Stencyl is crap. Because they aren't matured enough to understand the argument at all. You shouldn't discuss anything with anyone if they wouldn't even attempt to understand.
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Bhoopalan

  • Posts: 1016
oh and one more thing about those moaners who say Stencyl isn't real coding, I've read a nice sentence once. "Coding isn't about writing a code but solving problems that occurs". If you can fix an error in a stencyl app without knowing to write code and if the other person knows to write code but clueless when there are errors, you are definitely a better coder than him.

Get rid of such people.
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Paoloboss

  • Posts: 5
my ordinary opinion..
when you know the basic of something(everything) you can see over the wall.
maybe take a lot of time to make a perfect game design..
Zichichi(nobel prize] says  that the best way to be a scientist is to know the 4 operations.

sounds weird..but try to say in a second " 45 x442 ="

btw i like your idea..i support you!