Dev Diary - Comics World: Spies in Trouble

gfalcaor

  • Posts: 279
I was studying the indie game market and then I wanted to do some math on FGL site.
I am really curious regarding the path I will choose for my game in the future. If will I go solo on mobile market, will try sponsorship or even sell it on FGL...

I like the idea of going solo. But I do know it's the hardest way.

Back to FGL:


So I did divide 16138427$ per 11723.
It gives us 1376$ per game.
Is that the average value you guys expect to receive when using FGL?

« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 03:33:46 pm by gfalcaor »

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Bombini

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  • Posts: 1400
That is difficult to say.

A lot games have low value.
Some have much higher.
I would not rely on these numbers at all. It really depends on the game and the deal.

Here is an interesting article from Andy Moore on SteamBirds: http://www.andymoore.ca/2010/03/steambirds-by-the-numbers/



dripple

  • Posts: 747
I would say: depends :)

From what I could see in the past, the average for a content buy is about 300 to 500 USD.

A complete dedicated production from a Studio (means: port or develop a game for me on request) is between 3000 and 5000 USD. In some markets / niches  you can earn up to 8000 USD for the first year and another 2000 for every other year.
Sure, my games won't get better with all the new features of Stencyl.
But I do have more fun creating bad ones.


MayazCastle Keeper

gfalcaor

  • Posts: 279
Thanks guys.

That steambirds case was a nice story to read.
Don't get me wrong as I don't want to be cocky or arrogant. But I don't think a value around 10k dollars is a good value for a game.

I do realize that most of indie games don't worth even half of that.
But I am focusing on creating a game studio. My goal is to do something big.

Maybe that goal is a hard one to achieve. I am aware of that.
But I do focus on trying my best to deliver a real cool game.
Obviously I do realize that every developer thinks his/her game is the winner. Even if everyone may say the opposite.

But I really do think that if we do try really hard enough and develop our games with passion we may achieve what steambirds did. Or even more.

I know it's a pretentious goal... But I really do wish to do something professional.
Sell a game for 5k - for instance - is not making anyone comfortable.
Only if that guy do create 20 games per year. ;)

Am I wrong?

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gfalcaor

  • Posts: 279
Its 2AM.
I should be sleeping right now. Have to wake up early tomorrow for work.
But I cant stop developing my game!

I am really excited with the enhancements I am doing with Spine plus Photoshop.
As I have to "break" my characters in parts - arms, legs, torso among others - I am taking some time to enhance each part carefully with Photoshop.

So you may see the differences between the left image, which is the enhanced, and the right one which was the former image.
I am fixing the stroke lines, doing some better coloring (is that term right?) and shading whenever I can.


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mikhog

  • Posts: 151

So I did divide 16138427$ per 11723.
It gives us 1376$ per game.
Is that the average value you guys expect to receive when using FGL?


A game can get several deals. One premium license and several sitelocks. So the average per game is probably higher. It should be noted though that the golden age of flash is probably over and the average earnings for at least flash game sponsorships probably have gone down if the forums on FGL are correct.
"It came from the forest!" a zombie defense shooter
http://www.kongregate.com/games/mikhog/it-came-from-the-forest
Also, check out my RPG inventory system on stencyl forge or test it: http://www.stencyl.com/game/play/25268
Current project (hack n slash RPG): http://www.stencyl.com/game/play/25366
I also do Unity development both 2D and 3D

gfalcaor

  • Posts: 279
Yeah!
I understand that.
When I had the idea of making a game the mobile market was what came in mind.
At first I was with mobile only idea.
Then steam came into my mind after reading some forums.

I don't want to create my game on flash.
The demo is running on it just for practical reasons, as it's faster and easier to get people testing it so I may receive feedbacks.

But still I do focus on getting my game into mobile market.
That's why my game has a kind of simple way of playing.
Only side keys to move and up for action.
I will translate it on mobile to a side keys - or follow where the player touches in screen - and icon touch for actions.

I can only point tiny thief as an example.

So there came another question:
If flash market is downhill - or it was downhill and now is only down, why do developers still try selling on flash format?
Why not focus on mobile?

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dripple

  • Posts: 747
Why not focus on mobile?
Don't mix terms here. Technology versus platform versus market. Flash means web-based desktop. And that's where it competes with HTML5 in the moment. But even me, a huge fan of HTML5, does not see a successful general business model coming up for HTML5 casual gaming in the next 24 to 48 months.

The "mobile" you refer to, means in your case "native iOS and Android" on phones and probably tablets, again this is different to mobile applications played on the mobile devices web browser (HTML5)

So, the platfom is, simplified...:
- Console (Xbox, PS, WII...)
- Micro Console (Ouya, M.O.J.O. Fire TV, ...)
- Desktop (Win, Mac, Linux...)
- Tablets (iPad, Kindle...)
- Mobile phones (iPhone, iPod touch, mobile phones)

... with the technologies (examples)...:
- native C(++, #...)
- native Java (Android)
- native iOS
- Flash
- native Wrapper (HTML5, JavaScript) like Appcelerator, PhoneGap
- Air to native conversions
- HTML5 (browser based)

... and the genre...
- action games
- adventures / role playing
- simulations
- casual gaming
- casino games
(just examples, have a look at the wikipedia)

Platform, technology and genre usually are combined into the term "market" with flavors like Freemium (in-app purchases) or Social (Game Center, Facebook...) 


/dripple
Sure, my games won't get better with all the new features of Stencyl.
But I do have more fun creating bad ones.


MayazCastle Keeper

gfalcaor

  • Posts: 279
You are right.
I will remake my question:
Why do focus on web based games and not on iOS / android games for mobile?
Wouldn't it be a better market?

I guess the mobile - in this case iOS and android - is a great market. Obviously nothing is easy. Hard work and a lot of luck.
But what I am studying around I see console games among iOS and android are the perfect market to focus on.

Don't you agree?

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dripple

  • Posts: 747
Why do focus on web based games and not on iOS / android games for mobile?
Again, it's not that simple and depends heavy on the game type you want to create!

A game on a mobile phone usually has a different target group as a game build for tablets or desktops. Think of a casual game played while waiting for the bus, or in a short break in school. The player might have only 2 or 5 minutes of time to play, maybe 15 minutes.

A tablet game usually has a different audience, as it is mostly played at home (as an example), so the player might invest way more time into the game. Think of 15 minutes, half an hour or even up to 2 hours.

This differences effects the game design and game play a lot. Of course there are (popular) titles which do not fit into this scheme, but those are exceptions.

I know what you want to express, I just want to point out that it's not so simple to say and to understand the audience will help you to create better games for this audience. In a short: If the levels of "Spies in Trouble" take more then 5 minutes of time to solve, I probably will never play it on my mobile (phone)... :)
Sure, my games won't get better with all the new features of Stencyl.
But I do have more fun creating bad ones.


MayazCastle Keeper

gfalcaor

  • Posts: 279
Yes. I understand.
That's why I want to do short levels.

Have you ever played Stealth Inc or Tiny Thief?
They made kind well on mobile and has a similar gameplay as mine. Puzzle with stealth.

They are my inspirational sources for mobile.
But my main inspirational source is "commandos" for PC.
Changeable players, stealth, drag knocked enemies away from other enemies sight...

And the audience I want to focus is for the casual players.
Maybe not angry bird / candy crush casual ones.
But I don't aim for the console players.

I do believe that there are audience on mobile for a more complex game than the very casual game.
See machinarium, limbo, tiny thief, stealth inc and a lot others.
They are successful games on mobile that are not so casual.

Most of them were created for consoles / PC and migrated to mobile afterwards. But even so made a success on that market.

Right?


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dripple

  • Posts: 747
Most of them were created for consoles / PC and migrated to mobile afterwards. But even so made a success on that market.
I don't agree here. A port from desktop or console to mobile will never be successful, and never has. Most of the such ports have been changed so much in the game play, that I would consider calling it a "Spin Off".  But this is only my opinion. :)

This all reminds me the very popular Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Series, ported to mobile on Nokia Series 40, developed by Gameloft. They really did a good job on casual games.

« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 09:46:32 am by dripple »
Sure, my games won't get better with all the new features of Stencyl.
But I do have more fun creating bad ones.


MayazCastle Keeper

rob1221

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  • Posts: 9472
Quote
Don't get me wrong as I don't want to be cocky or arrogant. But I don't think a value around 10k dollars is a good value for a game.
Then your expectations are way too high.  For a self-made game, pretty much everyone here would consider $10k a huge success.

Since you're targeting mobile, are you posting this dev diary on mobile forums like Touch Arcade?

gfalcaor

  • Posts: 279
Most of them were created for consoles / PC and migrated to mobile afterwards. But even so made a success on that market.
I don't agree here. A port from desktop or console to mobile will never be successful, and never has. Most of the such ports have been changed so much in the game play, that I would consider calling it a "Spin Off".  But this is only my opinion. :)

This all reminds me the very popular Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Series, ported to mobile on Nokia Series 40, developed by Gameloft. They really did a good job on casual games.


But... But...
:)

I know there are some spin offs. Like splinter cell, assassins creed...
But I am talking about stealth inc, limbo and machinarium as examples.
Those games are practically the same that we're launched on PC / consoles.

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gfalcaor

  • Posts: 279
Quote
Don't get me wrong as I don't want to be cocky or arrogant. But I don't think a value around 10k dollars is a good value for a game.
Then your expectations are way too high.  For a self-made game, pretty much everyone here would consider $10k a huge success.

Since you're targeting mobile, are you posting this dev diary on mobile forums like Touch Arcade?

I do believe we all must aim high.
Obviously you may not hit at first. But you should always aim high.
But I am fully aware that my expectations are really high. Even not real.
I just want o create the best game I may be able to create and have a shot on Apple store / google store.
If by any chance my game gets a spot on the first page than I may consider a jackpot!
But yes... I know it's a really hard thing to accomplish.

I am not posting into Touch Arcade yet as I am still on the beginning of the development.
When i do have it more polished I will not only try to show it on touch arcade but on reddit and other midias.


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